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The case of Dr Venugopal Threat from AIDS |
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Education is the way
Saints and sinners
My bath right
Opposition to N-deal emotional Understanding the Gorshkov dilemma Chatterati
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The case of Dr Venugopal Ordinarily, poets, writers, doctors and intellectuals should be treated with respect in every democratic country. The sacking of Dr P. Venugopal from the post of Director of the All India Institute of Medical Sciences within minutes of President Pratibha Patil giving her assent to the AIIMS (Amendment) Bill, however, cannot do the nation proud. Union Health Minister Anbumani Ramadoss can have the satisfaction that he could push his Bill through both Houses of Parliament to see the back of Dr Venugopal. In the process, he has caused harm to the medical profession and thrown to the wind all niceties in minister-AIIMS relations. It is, perhaps, the first time that an individual-specific law has been enacted by Parliament. Even if there was a case for fixing the retirement age of the Director, the government could have implemented it with prospective effect and not focused it on Dr Venugopal for satisfying the ministerial arrogance. The heavens would not have fallen if Dr Venugopal, one of India’s topmost cardiac surgeons, was allowed to complete his full term of five years for which he was appointed. But to expect such etiquette from Mr Ramadoss was not to understand the minister, who has been at the Director’s neck for no other reason than that Dr Venugopal did not allow ministerial interventions to scuttle the autonomy enjoyed by the premier medical institute of the country. On the other hand, the minister expected the Director to dance to his whims. The standoff between the two has been adversely affecting the functioning of the AIIMS. Yet, the Prime Minister could not take any step to rein in the minister because of the compulsions of coalition politics, much to the annoyance of the staff, students and patients of the AIIMS. Had the MPs, who gave their nod for the controversial Bill, cared to find out the minister’s motive in introducing it in such a hurry when many other issues concerning the Health Ministry do not engage his attention, they would not have fallen for it. The lack of medicines and staff in government hospitals, the pathetic health delivery system in the countryside and the death of a large number of children even before they complete five years and the prevalence of HIV/AIDS are some of the issues the minister should have ideally been tackling. Alas, he was obsessed with getting rid of Dr Venugopal so that he could sleep well. That the Supreme Court will go into the question is one silver lining in the otherwise sad saga. But Parliament suddenly changing the law might cramp its inclination for justice.
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Threat from AIDS THERE is no consolation in the fact that the current estimate of those infected with the HIV/AIDS virus in India is 2.5 million against the earlier 5.7 million victims. The number is still too huge, and the virus is still spreading. Some high-incidence states like Andhra Pradesh and Maharashtra have shown signs of stabilisation, but the rates of infection in many other states are increasing. The World AIDS Campaign organisation, which spearheads the drive against the disease with the annual World AIDS Day on December 1, has announced a theme of “leadership” for 2007 and 2008. It is this leadership which has been sorely lacking at the state level in the country, though there are one or two exceptions. Punjab and other states in the region are witnessing increasing incidences, and not enough is being done in terms of AIDS awareness and education, prevention among vulnerable groups like sex workers, drug-abusers, and mobile groups like truck drivers. There is a testing gap that exists, which may well mean that many more sufferers are still outside the identification/treatment umbrella. And access to the best drugs is still an issue for most patients. Children born infected with the virus are among the most tragic of the victims. Almost 3 per cent of those infected in India are children. Early detection can help alleviate their suffering, and the government’s move to implement direct HIV detection for infants is a step in the right direction. Many die or have their growth stunted due to late detection. Under current methods, doctors have to wait for 18 months before administering the test in order to obtain a definitive result. Technology and medical care are indeed advancing, but state mechanisms have to work well to deliver the benefits to the needy. Prevention is still the best option, and the message needs to go out effectively.
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Education is the way THE cure for many of the problems confronting the minorities in India is education. Unfortunately, the level of illiteracy among such groups is woefully high. That becomes a vicious circle. Since they are not educated, they don’t get jobs. Since they don’t have jobs, they don’t get to educate their children. Those facing such a dilemma will get some relief when the scheme approved by the Cabinet Committee on Economic Affairs on Friday to give post-matriculation scholarships to students belonging to minority communities comes into force. As many as 15 lakh scholarships are to be given under the Rs 1,530-crore scheme during the next five years. Enabling them compete with others on an equal footing is far better than the usual way out of giving reservation. In fact, it avoids all the bickering and controversy over favouring a particular section at the cost of the majority. What is significant is that the scholarships are to be given on merit-cum-means criteria. That means that those students whose parents earn more than Rs 2 lakh per year will not be given scholarships. The students will also have to get at least 50 per cent marks in matriculation to become eligible. The enrolment of Muslim women in colleges is among the lowest in the country. The scheme, which is to be fully sponsored by the Centre, has reserved 30 per cent scholarships for women. As usual, the most crucial factor will be its proper implementation. All such schemes look impressive on paper but fail to serve the purpose because of the apathy of the officials. For instance, take a similar scheme launched by the Haryana Government for students of the Scheduled Castes and Backward Classes. Students have alleged that in many cases, they get the scholarships almost at the end of the academic session. Being poor, they find it hard to purchase study material when the classes are on. Some students even fail to get admission for want of money. Even if these are only “procedural delays”, as government officials call them, they can make or mar the scheme. The Centre will have to ensure that there are no bottlenecks on the way.
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Fear death? — to feel the fog in my throat, / The mist in my face. — Robert Browning
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Saints and sinners
IF the news pages of a newspaper constitute the state, the edit page represents the church. No conscientious editor would ever allow masquerading of opinion as news, for it is tantamount to cheating the reader. The principle underlining the separation of the state from the church could not have been expressed better, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s”. However, it took hundreds of years after these words were uttered before the papal scandals of the Avignon Captivity and the Great Schism - when as many as three pontiffs had claimed to be the successor of St. Peter at the same time — forced many to conclude that the state and the church had their own domains. Most modern states, with the exception of the ‘Khomeinist’ variety, are based on the belief that the church and the state are separate entities and they should always remain so. It may be ironic but it is true that religion played a key role in the creation of the first modern secular republic - the United States. Yet, when it came to the drafting of the Federal Constitution the Founders decided to disestablish religion and secularise politics. The needs of the modern state demanded that it be tolerant and, therefore, secular. The same spirit guided the founding fathers of our Constitution when they declared the country a “secular” republic. Notwithstanding some aberrations, the Indian state has strictly tried to adhere to the secular ideals enshrined in the Constitution. It is against this backdrop that some developments in Punjab during the last few days have caused concern. The Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee is an elected body that manages most of the historic gurdwaras, including Harmandar Sahib, popularly known as the Golden Temple. The voters are all Sikhs. The job of the SGPC is to ensure that the gurdwaras and the various institutions under them are run properly and in a spirit of accommodation. The culture of giving that the Gurus have inculcated among the Sikhs sees to it that no hungry or shelterless visitor to a gurdwara anywhere in the world is turned out for want of food or accommodation. Paid workers are anathema to the religion, which extols the virtues of karseva. Punjab Chief Minister Parkash Singh Badal has for quite sometime been the pivot around which the SGPC moves. So when he became Chief Minister for the fourth time, it was only natural for him to reward them for their loyalty. The reward was announced just before election of a new SGPC chief was due. In one fell swoop he granted them two favours - every SGPC member will be entitled to have a red beacon light on his car and two Punjab Police constables will provide him security. Unfortunately, Badal Saab’s writ does not run beyond the boundaries of Punjab, shrunk to one-fifth of the size of the Punjab of Maharaja Ranjit Singh. So the SGPC members from Haryana will have to wait till they cross the Punjab border to put up the beacon light on their cars. The Chief Minister expects all the SGPC members to have cars of their own as the SGPC does not provide such a perk. It has not so far been explained whether those members who do not have cars but are dependent on public transport like buses and rickshaws are allowed to carry the lights so that they can put them up on the vehicles they choose to travel by. Alternatively, they can be allowed to carry the beacon lights on their shoulders for fear of desecrating the turban. Beacon lights on ambulance, police and fire brigade vehicles are allowed the world over, as they have to be given the right of way. The arrival of a heart patient at the hospital, the police at a scene of crime and the fire brigade at an inferno cannot wait for the green signal at a traffic junction. By no stretch of the imagination can an SGPC member claim such a privilege. That every sundry government official and politician uses such lights making it a status symbol is a truth that cannot, however, be wished away. This writer knows the plight of a poor cartoonist in New Delhi who was given unsolicited police protection when a fellow cartoonist was killed. Until the constable arrived, he was comfortably using DTC buses to go to office. When the constable pressurised him to hire a taxi for commuting, his family budget went for a toss. Worse, the constable grabbed one whole room of his tiny two-room flat. After much exasperation, he successfully requested the Delhi Police Commissioner to withdraw the security. Whether the SGPC members are happy with Mr Badal’s decision or not, the question is on what ground he has extended the benefits to them. I belong to a church, which has an elected body like the SGPC. If I get elected to that body and shift to Mohali, will the Punjab government allow me such facilities? If an SGPC member can have such facilities, every temple/church/mosque committee member can also claim it. While the Chief Minister’s decision is questionable on grounds of constitutional propriety, the SGPC’s decision to hang a portrait of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale in the museum at the Golden Temple has raised the hackles of many. The question may be asked, why should anyone bother about what portrait hangs at a religious place that belongs to a particular community. But such a question does not hold water in regard to Harmandar Sahib, which transcends religious divides and appeals to a larger section of the people. When a person stands in supplication in its precincts, he does not consider it merely as a Sikh shrine. In fact, Harmandar Sahib belongs to one and all by virtue of which it becomes a national heritage, attracting worshippers from all corners of the world. Four centuries ago, Guru Arjan Dev who took the initiative to construct the Golden Temple could not have allowed a Muslim to lay the foundation stone without any forethought. The Guru wanted it to be inclusive in character and it remained so except for a while when Sant Bhindranwale held sway over it. That is precisely why many find it difficult to stomach the honouring of a person who played an unsavoury role during a period when the people of Punjab suffered enormously and put back the clock of progress. The state, which was at the No. 1 slot in many respects, is yet to recover from the loss it suffered during that period. He tried to push his community to the path of secession with catastrophic results. His was an embattled spirituality, thought up as a response to a perceived crisis. In the process, the fundamentalist in him cast aside the insights of a liberal culture and justified killing in the name of religion and strove to bring the sacred into the realm of politics. The remnants of his supporters have been trying in vain to place him in the ranks of the great Sikhs who laid down their lives in the service of humanity. Fundamentalism is not a conscious archaism; it is a throwback to the past. Those who have tried to appease fundamentalists in the past have rued their decision because fundamentalists have an inordinate capacity to ask for more. Today it is Sant Bhindranwale’s portrait, tomorrow it will be the portraits of convicted and hanged
assassins.
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My bath right WHEN I sing while bathing, I am in seventh heaven sharing ecstasy with the likes of Kishore Kumar. I can sing sad and mirthful songs with the skill of a perfectionist. I can yodel too. I have, however, never tried my vocal bands on a public stage otherwise, I am confident, I would have been an honoured recipient of eggs and tomatoes. Rupali, my granddaughter, who herself sings well and has had quite a few stage shows, is an able reviewer of my singing ability and selection of songs. Once, under the flowing shower, I was in Kunal Ganjawala mode. Rupali shouted from outside: “Nanu, the film was enough. Please don’t ‘murder’ the song.” The other day when I was totally lost in that forgotten voice of Master Madan with “yun na rah rah kar hamen tarsaiye. Aayeeye, Aa bhi jaayeeye.” She commented: “What is the matter, Nanu? Is that dose of Isabgol with hot milk at night not proving to be effective?” I continue getting such medals (or needles) from my near and dear ones for my bath-room singing but my vocal mellifluence continues. And I am sure that many of my brother bath-room singers, braving the cold water on a wintry morning, must be humming, “thande thande paani se nahana parega”, if not remembering Goddess Kali. Bath-room singing is not an ancient art, if it is an art. There were no bath-rooms in old Indian homes. People, even the kings, used to go to the rivers and ponds for cleaning their bodies and their ritual was to chant ‘mantras’ while bathing. There are stories of Raja Bhoj taking bath in river Shipra. In the West, bathing was a superfluous operation. It is known that Queen Elizabeth-I used to have bath once a year, when she really changed garment next to her skin. As is the Queen, so are the subjects. America’s first bathtub was built in Cincinnati in 1842. It was denounced as ‘luxurious and democratic vanity’. In 1843, Philadelphia prohibited bathing between November 1 and March 15. Two years later Boston made bathing unlawful except when prescribed by a physician. So like democracy, bathroom singing is modern. Again like democracy, bathroom singing is based upon the conviction that there are extraordinary possibilities in ordinary people. Mr Coleridge, I believe, you did not have bathroom singers in mind when you said: “Swans sing before they die ‘twere no bad thing/Should certain persons die before they
sing.”
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Opposition to N-deal emotional AFTER the debate in the Lok Sabha on November 28, the nuclear issue and the 123 Agreement with the US have gained significant clarity. One hopes the debate in the Rajya Sabha on Monday, December 3, will add to the transparency of the deal and highlight that a significant portion of the opposition to the deal stems from either emotional anti-Americanism or from political parochialism. The Lok Sabha debate clarified a number of major issues. Yet it is very likely the same arguments, effectively replied to, will be repeated in the Rajya Sabha. It was made clear that the 123 Agreement was a passport for India to have nuclear commerce and technology transfer from 45 countries of the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) which together control all nuclear technology-related resources. Though the 123 Agreement is with the United States, it is a prerequisite to get the waiver from the regulations of the NSG which prohibits any transaction with a non-member of the Nonproliferation Treaty as India is. In that sense, it is not merely a bilateral agreement with the US only. The 123 Agreement with the US has two purposes. First, it opens the door for negotiations with the NSG to extend to India the waiver from its regulations. This function of the 123 Agreement has nothing to do with the Hyde Act. If, on the basis of getting the 123 Agreement through, India gets the necessary waiver from the NSG, thereafter it need not at all have any dealings with the US on nuclear matters and can stay totally out of the purview of the Hyde Act. Whether there should be any nuclear transactions with the US can be decided on the basis of costs and benefits of individual transactions. Therefore, at this stage, there is no need to worry about the Hyde Act, which will be of relevance not when India uses the 123 Agreement as a passport to get the NSG waiver but when it enters into specific nuclear transactions. Unfortunately, these two separate issues have been mixed up by some people whose objection to enter into the 123 Agreement is emotional. The 123 Agreement will be the first international treaty to recognise that India has a strategic nuclear programme and to contain a specific US commitment to respect that programme. These commitments will stay whether India buys any nuclear reactor from the US or not. The US, in Article 14(2), by undertaking to discuss the circumstances in which India carrying out a test spurred by serious concern from a changed security environment or as a response to similar actions by other states impacting on national security, by implication accepts India’s right to conduct a nuclear test. This is totally different from the situation during 1998 when the US and the international community denied India any right to conduct a nuclear test under whatsoever circumstances. Prime Minister A.B. Vajpayee’s letter to US President Bill Clinton in May 1998, that the Indian test was necessitated by the serious concern of the changed security environment caused by China’s nuclear and missile proliferation to Pakistan, was not acceptable either to President Clinton or other powers. Therefore, the 123 Agreement is indisputably an improvement over the situation in which India conducted Pokhran-II. Unfortunately, the full implications of this concession made by the US in Article 14(2) of the 123 Agreement has not been understood by the opponents to the aggrement. There have been criticisms that the proposed separation plan along with the Fissile Materials Cut-Off Treaty (FMCT) will limit the size of India’s strategic arsenal, short of our credible minimum deterrent requirements. The Prime Minister, Dr Manmohan Singh, has made it clear that his commitment is only to discuss the (FMCT). He has assured Parliament that India will join the treaty only if its security concerns are fully addressed. The image sought to be projected that the NDA government had offerred only two reactors for IAEA safeguards during the negotiations on the NSSP while the UPA’s separation plan provides for 14 reactors to be put under IAEA safeguards needs to be analysed carefully. The NDA government had offerred two additional reactors for safeguards immediately in addition to the six already under safeguards. But it also agreed to put all future reactors becoming critical under safeguards. After 2006, six of our reactors became critical and would have come under safeguards under the NSSP scheme. By offerring two of the then operating reactors for safeguards the NDA government was planning to retain eight commercial reactors outside the safeguards – the same number as agreed to under the separation plan in 2006. Eight reactors of 200 MW capacity each can produce theoretically 480 kg of plutonium per year — which can produce 80 warheads. In addition, India has the Dhruva reactor which is meant for weapon production with the annual production rate of 30 kg. These reactors have been operating for years and, therefore, if there had been a target number for credible minimum deterrent that amount of plutonium was well within India’s capacity to produce. Further, the UPA government, under the separation plan, has reserved its right to set up more reactors outside the safeguards if it becomes necessary. In these circumstances fears of possible capping of our arsenal do not make sense. Yet another misunderstanding is about the renaissance of nuclear power. The first generation reactors are generating 16 per cent of world energy needs. A new generation of reactors is to emerge shortly and many advanced countries, including the US and Russia, have placed orders for these reactors and more are being planned. As the pressure increases on the international community to cut back on green house gas emissions, there are rising expectations of nuclear energy renaissance. Above all, the 123 Agreement is not about bilateral relations with the US or about nuclear energy only. It is about India interacting with the 45-nation NSG who together constitute the technology reservoir of the world. Those who are finding fault with the 123 Agreement have no alternative to suggest as to how India is to liberate itself from the present, crippling, technology denial regime; and join the international community to play its due role in the 21st century, the knowledge century. India cannot afford to let this opportunity pass by.
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Understanding the Gorshkov dilemma IN recent months, the media has been flooded with reports that the Russian aircraft carrier, Admiral Gorshkov, contracted for repairs at a price of some $ 750 million for delivery in end 2008, is not only running behind time but is also beset by huge cost overruns. If these reports are to be believed, and there appears to be some truth in them, the Russians want another $ 1000 million to complete the work with a possible completion date of 2010, possibly later. The stated reason for this massive escalation is underestimation of the initial repair package by the Russian yard responsible for undertaking the work. Before India and Russia signed the contract, the ship had been lying unserviceable for many years. When this happens, the steel of the hull corrodes quickly; Gorshkov must be having over 25,000 tons of steel plate needing substantive replacement and extra work, identified by detailed surveys will, almost always, become necessary. Most of the electrical and electronic equipment has to be changed. At least, auxiliary if not main propulsion machinery will need replacement. Above all, cabling in the big ship, running into several hundred kilometers, would need large scale renewal. Since the ship has also to be configured for a ski-jump, additional deck modifications are involved. So, the work is very major and in a ship of 42,000 ton displacement, as complex as an aircraft carrier, the possibility of underassessment and consequent overruns is high. One could argue that the Russians are not novices at this business; they are, after all, the ones who built the ship. This is only partly true; building a ship from scratch is infinitely easier that refitting it comprehensively. Our own experience of doing such work in ships much smaller bears this out. There have been significant time and cost overruns and some projects had actually to be abandoned half way through. So, there is need to view the issue pragmatically. For us, to have assumed that Gorshkov, or Vikramaditya, as the vessel is to be called once it begins to fly the Indian flag, would come at the time and cost originally agreed, was at one end somewhat optimistic and at the other, quite naïve. Let us look at some facts. The Brahmaputra class frigates built at Garden Reach Shipyard in Kolkatta were behind schedule by seven to eight years; so was the oiler Aditya built in the same yard. If we think that a Kolkatta shipyard is not a model of efficiency or productivity, look at the case of the ships on order at Mazagon Docks in Mumbai. The frigates ordered in 1997 and three others, ordered later, are nowhere on the horizon, this when the yard should be able to turn out such vessels in five years. In every case there have been cost overruns. Those built in Kolkatta cost four times the price originally estimated. This is not because people charged with the task were or are incompetent; construction of warships is not like building merchant vessels where technology is very much simpler and construction straightforward. Estimating costs of warships is not easy and is subject to several imponderables. This is not to suggest that what is happening with Gorshkov should not be viewed seriously. In the first place, we must ask the Indian team attached to the Russian shipyard to oversee the work, what the details of the extra work are, whether it is justified and, if so, why was continuous feed back not available with Naval Headquarters much earlier, assuming that it was not. Prima facie, it would appear that there has been some weakness. In regard to the work now being projected, the aim should be to identify what is necessary to ensure that the ship functions reliably for the next two decades, at the very least. Cabling and auxiliary machinery are key as they form the weakest links in the chain. The two aspects, time and cost overruns should be looked at separately. As far as the first is concerned, mutually agreed revised work packages must be worked out and time frame of that work established. Price escalation falls under a different category. The Russia methods of cost estimation, much like in the erstwhile USSR, are ad hoc and leave much scope for hard negotiations. It should be possible for a well prepared team to trim the projected figure of $ 1000 million odd very substantially. The India-Russia linkage for military hardware has survived four decades of tension and stressful situations like this have been faced many times. Through the 1990s, supply of spares and materiel had completely dried up leaving our Armed Forces gasping. Even otherwise and at different times, in fact even today, logistics support has never been the strong point in this relationship. But that country gave us contemporary and quite modern ships, submarines, aircraft, armoured vehicles, missile systems and guns when no other country would and on very favourable terms. A nuclear submarine could not have been leased from anywhere else, even today, but we got one, the Chakra two decades ago and a much larger and more versatile Akula boat is not far away. Our submarines, acquired from that country, are the only ones in these waters which can launch missiles of 300 kilometer range from under the water. The Brahmos cruise missile, already operationalized in our ships, is another example of this cooperation. More modern military hardware is on order and other high technology futuristic projects on the anvil. So, the relationship is not just about the aircraft carrier; it has a very much larger dimension and there is need to place this subset within the larger canvas. Finally, any bilateral military relationship must, always, be viewed in the context of the overall strategic relationship between the two countries. Russia, despite its weakened position, is still a major international player, even more so in Asia. Along with China and Japan, it is key to the Asian power equations in which India is seeking a rightful place. There are no major divergences in interests between the two countries; indeed, in most areas these are in synergy. Strong strategic interfaces with Russia enhance our flexibilities in interacting with other major players. Our own position is also much stronger than what it was two decades ago. So, in the ensuing negotiations we must be forceful but positive, recognizing the pivotal role that the ship will play in our quest for maritime power. Quid pro quos are an essential ingredient of bilateral relations. If we look at the Gorshkov through this ultimate prism, we will know where to go. The writer is a former Commander-in-Chief of the Eastern Naval Command and Director General Defence Planning
Staff
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Chatterati Kitchen
cabinets now it seems are being taken by the Congress seriously. The son of a cook of the Gandhis got the ticket, dislodging a three-time sitting MLA. A sepoy too who has been working for the Gandhis has been rewarded by a ticket again, after declining a ticket to an old time faithful sitting M.L.A. It seems untrue. But the seat distribution in a state can more or less tell you of a party’s winning pattern. Some senior Congress leaders are thankfully resigning due to old age, but have made sure that their brothers and sons have come and taken their seats, once again ignoring the hard core worker. Hence, we have the resignation of several block presidents of the Congress. Why would Congress workers work for them is the question here. The relatives, who have more or less failed in other fields, come and take refuge in their family constituencies. What is wrong with other workers who have slogged for decades? Will they never get a chance? Dynasty rule now changes to the kitchen cabinet syndrome, literally. Mrs Indira Gandhi did have a kitchen cabinet who she took advice from. But they were not cooks and sepoys. They were her inner coterie of politicians and senior bureaucrats. But now, with the kind of choices that an aspirant has, he/she just walk off because their loyalty and hard work of years is being neglected. They join other political parties trying to create a dent. Many rebels of the Congress have joined the BSP and Paswan’s party. The performance of the Congress-led government in the last term will of course help the party. Surprisingly, there is hardly any incumbency. The BJP of course played a smart game by announcing Dhumal as CM candidate in HP, after giving Shanta Kumar’s men tickets. Now Shanta had better make sure his candidates win.
Number game Numerology seems to be the thing now after astrology and Tarot cards. There seems to be an uncanny connection between the Mahajans and the number 4. Don’t believe it, take a look. Pravin Mahajan’s birth date is December 4, while wife Sarangi’s is August 4. Their twins, Vrushali and Kapil were born on December 22. Pravin was accused of shooting his brother Pramod Mahajan on April 22, 2006, in the latter’s Flat No. 1201, in Poorna Apartments, Worli. The date and the flat number adds up to 4. Pramod Mahajan joined active politics during the emergency in 1975 = 4. He unsuccessfully contested the 1984 Lok Sabha elections and was also the All India Secretary of his party at that time. 1984 = 4. In August 2002, Pramod Mahajan’s name was dragged into the Shivani Bhatnagar murder trial. He had rejected a demand from IPS officer R K Sharma’s wife for a paternity test. 2002 = 4. “Experts” say Number 4 and 8 are not compatible and one should avoid this combination. People born on 4th, 13th, 22nd or 31st of any month, are ruled by Rahu. It is said to be an active and disruptive force which works on the mental level. Politicians are now looking more for numerology experts than Vastu experts or Astrologers.
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