on record
‘Can’t afford to falter on AFSPA’
— Farooq Abdullah, Union Minister for New and Renewable Energy, and National Conference president
Farooq Abdullah speaks to Raj Chengappa, Editor-in-Chief of The Tribune Group of Newspapers

What do you feel about Prashant Bhushan talking about a referendum on the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA) in J&K?

I do not think it is right. ‘Referendumism’ is not a small matter. It is very easily said. He is completely on the wrong side. They do not know, but I do not blame him. It must be because of the way some people may have informed him that he has come out with such a statement. He has also suggested a referendum on whether the forces should go into the Naxal areas or not. These are things that should be left to people who know. I do not know what the Intelligence inputs are today on this.

The Army Chief said in his press conference before Army Day that he did not think the situation was conducive to lifting the AFSPA. Do you agree with that?

I am as worried as anybody else as to what is going to happen in Afghanistan. I am worried that the Taliban will probably regroup and Jehadi groups will get the strength from that. And we have already got a number of Jehadi groups in our neighbourhood, which are itching to come in and create problems. I hope I am not right, but I am afraid. We must be very careful about thinking what we have to do and how we have to proceed about it, because any wrong step and the country may have to pay a major price.

Do you think the conditions are good enough to at least partially lift AFSPA in certain areas?

You see the point here is the Army somehow feels it needs the protection. They can never be sure what will be the next move of our neighbour; that is where our suffering is from. All this has to be thought out very carefully. But we do feel that from areas where there is no trouble the Army should be withdrawn. You are wasting troops in the hinterland, whereas they could be of much more use on the border, because infiltrators come across the border over land, not by air or from under the ground. If you can stop that infiltration, you will not need the tough regulations and security.

So you are saying the time is conducive for partially lifting AFSPA?

Yes, definitely it is. It will have very good political results as people will realise that there is positive thought happening.

And this decision will be taken with the Army’s agreement?

Everybody has to be taken in confidence. This is about the security of the nation, not just the state. Everything has to be weighed and then sometimes you have to take risks. If you don’t take risks, you don’t get anywhere. Certain risks are important in the larger interest of the nation.

In J&K you have a peculiar arrangement where the powers of the Chief Minister and Governor’s are somewhat different from the other states. Who has the right to lift AFSPA?

I think the Governor and the Chief Minister work together. You cannot have the Governor and Chief Minister on different wavelengths. It is not possible, particularly in a difficult state like Jammu and Kashmir. Obviously, the responsibility lies with both, one is elected and the other is appointed.

What is your sense of what is happening across the border? Do you feel Nawaz Sharif is in control now?

When you look at the talk he does, it is important to note that he says he wants friendship with India. But on the ground I do not see much happening. I still see Jehadis in control. I see Hafiz Saeed in command and dictating to Pakistan that you will not do this thing. They did not let Pakistan give India the Most Favoured Nation status in trade. Is Hafiz Saeed in command or Nawaz Sharif or the army? There are so many commands that one does not really know. They have launched so many militant groups that today they are not able to ride the tigers they have created. But the trouble is for us also.

So you feel the new Prime Minister has made the right noises but is unable to change the ground situation?

He is not able to deliver, that is why this is happening. I saw in the papers there is some talk of moving towards a settlement. What is that movement? No Indian knows about it, and I don’t think any Pakistani knows either; then what is the settlement? They say meetings are taking place, but I have very little hope.

What is the way forward? What do Pakistan and India have to do?

First and foremost Pakistan must forget that Kashmir is ever going to be its part. This they will have to sell to their people. For 65 years they have been telling them Kashmir is Pakistan’s; they must start changing the tune. People there have to realise that they have to live without Kashmir. The approach has to be that the PoK and the northern territory, which is part of Kashmir, should have as much autonomy as we have, rather than be controlled by Rawalpindi. They have to be able to decide. Next, we need easy access to each other for trade and other interaction, which will only come when there is trust. So building trust between India and Pakistan is important.

What is your assessment of the past 10 years, during which we have had freer movement across the LoC for Kashmiris?

One of the best things that has happened since the ceasefire is that people living close to the border on both sides have been having peaceful nights, some skirmishes notwithstanding. They are able to till their land right up to the border, live in their homes peacefully. The borders have become quiet. Secondly, people have seen what is happening on the other side — the strife in Pakistan. And the third major thing is the development that has taken place in Kashmir. People are beginning to stand on their own feet, they are passing the exams to get into the IAS, IPS, IFS and other services. There is the feeling that we belong here, we have the opportunities. There are new avenues for young people to start finding jobs in other states and cities across the country. Otherwise they were confined to just to the Valley, now by going out they realise that it is not as bad as some people say. They do see that there is a secular country and it is moving forward, everybody is doing well.

What about cross-border tourism?

That is also a very good development, though there is one problem. I have to point this out that you have to find 10 people to certify that you have relations here. The border-crossing which we had welcomed would have been much better if it were easier. Those intending to visit have to find a relation first, and then that relation has to have people who can confirm the relationship. The form they need to fill out for this is the most cumbersome. When people from PoK come here they see where we are; and when our people go there they see where they stand. That makes a huge difference. No matter how much we tell people, it cannot match the effect of their seeing it for themselves.

Every time there is trouble on either side of the border or between the two countries, trade between the two Kashmirs is held up. What needs to be done on that front?

The first thing is to have banking facilities. We must open a bank branch in Muzaffarabad, and they should open in Srinagar or Jammu, or wherever else required. Trade is done through banks, rather than clandestine ways that we have no control over. For a long time there has been a demand for such banking facilities. It will give a boost to the trade. There should also not be a restriction on things that can be traded. Let it be free. If you really want to trade, let us have open hearts. After all, people will only trade what has a ready market.

Another issue bothering J&K is the state’s relations with the Centre, in which you have been seeking certain changes. What do you expect on devolution of powers from the Centre?

We passed a resolution for autonomy, which was handed to the Vajpayee government. We asked them to examine it and tell us how would it upset or destroy the relationship with the rest of the country. We told them we would consider the objections raised, but the Central government should either convince us or be convinced. But they rejected it without reading it. You can ask Ram Jethmalani, who was the Law Minister. George Fernandes and Nitish were there too. It was rejected outright because of the RSS and their policy on Article 370.

Even the UPA has not taken up this autonomy issue?

No, but we have told them that one day they will have to take it up.

What is your view on autonomy when you talk of this?

You see, in 1952-53 we made an agreement with Delhi. We had certain rights, but those rights were eroded in a one-sided manner over the years. We want our honour and respect to be restored. Look into this, tell us where we are wrong. But nobody is ready to talk about it. There has been no movement on this subject in the UPA regime during all these years. As such, there are many tragedies, and this is one of them.

The Omar government has completed five years. What is your assessment of the way he has performed?

I am his father and it will not be right for me to say anything about him. Yet, he has tried his best to do whatever he could for the welfare of the people of the state under the difficult circumstances. It is not easy to run a coalition government — as the Prime Minister has also seen — there are many pushes and pulls. You want to do certain good things, you cannot do those because of coalition compulsions. One partner in a coalition fears that the other partner will have an edge with a particular decision. Otherwise, all of us are travelling in the same boat. If the creation of ‘niabats’ and tehsils in J&K benefits people, it is certainly going to be beneficial for both the partners of the ruling alliance in the state.

What would be Omar Abdullah’s achievements during this tenure?

There are many development projects that he has initiated, particularly for the youth, who can now stand on their own feet. J&K is a power-deficient state. Omar has done a lot for improving the power situation and launched power projects which will bring results in four or five years.

What would be your advice to him at this stage?

Omar should listen to the people more; and should deliver whatever he can do for them within his capacity. He should try to create and provide more jobs for the youth and ensure food for all. Many people have been dropped off the food security scheme. There is confusion about who will be on the list. We are discussing this with the Food Minister, something has to be done on this issue.

How does his style differ from that of yours? How do you compare the two?

We are different people. His style is different. I am a straightforward man; I have no inhibitions in talking to people. But Omar is a little reserved. We are from different ages. I am a Sufi person, I can meet anyone and everyone. He is much more careful. He studies things much better. I go with my instincts, whereas he examines things and issues meticulously.

What do you think in terms of the National Conference-Congress alliance in the state and at the Centre?

The time is coming when even Omar should move to the Centre, and younger people should start taking charge at the Centre. Young people have to carry India forward.

How do you see the forthcoming Lok Sabha elections? Will the NC ally with the Congress?

Time will tell that, and we cannot say anything at this time about the seat-sharing arrangements. I have not spoken to the Congress or Mrs Gandhi. What are their views on the alliance in the future cannot be said yet. When the time comes, we will speak to them. The relationship between the two parties has to be that of mutual respect.

What is your assessment of Rahul Gandhi?

He is going to be a Prime Minister one day, because the Congress has no other option. There are no more people as they used to be in the past. There is a lack of leadership. Other than Mrs Gandhi, I don’t see anyone else. Each one is on a different plane. Where is a national leader in any state in the Congress; they have not been able to generate any leader so far because the controlling power is in Delhi. Now the time has come when the Congress has to build its leadership in the states too. My advice to Rahul will be: “Please, for God’s sake, don’t keep sycophants around you. Believe those who say this is not correct, instead of those who just say you are correct.”

How do you rate the UPA government’s performance, of which you are a part?

I think the Prime Minister has done his best. What really got the UPA government was the price rise, it went out of control. Onion was sold for Rs 100 a kg! Another thing is corruption—the way the media projected this before the public, “chor hain, chor hain”. This negated the achievements. The worst thing we had in the UPA coalition was that there were certain partners who did not allow us to do even the right things.

What are your views on AAP and Kejriwal?

I think one thing they have done is that they have really uprooted the bandwagon of the BJP. For me, as someone who is secular, this is very good. What and how they will deliver to the people, I do not know. My advice to AAP and its leadership is that they should not make any promise or commitment to the voters that they cannot fulfil. They should tell the people the complete truth, including the limitations.

What do you think of Narendra Modi as a prime-ministerial candidate?

I feel I do not know him. But I am afraid that he may not be able to hold the fabric of India together. That is my fear, I hope I am wrong. There is a communal push in his past actions and that is not required here. I hope he does not go that way.

What is your sense of the post-Godhra incidents after Modi wrote about it in his blog?

He was one of those responsible for the post-Godhra incidents. As Chief Minister, if he had wanted, he could have asked for the Army’s help, which would have marched out on short notice. It does not take much time for the Army to come; you arrange one march of the Army through an area and believe me not a soul would be on the road. How can you as Chief Minister not be able to bring help? So any Chief Minister is responsible for these kinds of happenings in his state.

Is your party still thinking of allying with the BJP?

No, we are not going to be able to work with them. We have inherent difficulties, and the RSS is a major factor. They want to abrogate Article 370, which we do not want. As such, Narendra Modi is not fit to lead the nation. However, time will tell if Farooq Abdullah is correct or not. He is dictatorial; you will see many of the people who are supporting him today will back out as he will gradually make sure they have no hold.