Neither tired, nor retired: Former Haryana CM Bhupinder Singh Hooda

Former CM and Leader of Opposition Bhupinder Singh Hooda says the three Ps of polarisation, propaganda and police best define the BJP government in Haryana, and the public has already made up its mind to oust the party from power, evident in the party’s reduced vote share in the Lok Sabha elections.

In conversation with The Tribune’s Editor-in-Chief Jyoti Malhotra, Chief of Bureau, Haryana, Geetanjali Gayatri and Special Correspondent Bhartesh Singh Thakur on the show #DecodeHaryana, the Congress leader spoke on a wide variety of issues, ranging from Enforcement Directorate raids on Congress MLAs to factionalism in the party to BJP chief minister Nayab Saini’s jibes of “Baap-Beta”. Here is the full interview:

Q 1 You are an important player in Haryana politics. Recently, the Enforcement Directorate (ED) raided three of your MLAs. What do you have to say about these raids?

H: It is a sub judice matter. I don’t want to say much. If such an exercise is conducted to take revenge then people will give a befitting reply in the next elections.

Q 2 Do you think it is revenge?

H: It is. The timing reflects. I am also facing cases. We have full faith in the judiciary.

Q 3 We have seen leaders who face cases eventually go to BJP. Has BJP approached you?

H: (Laughs). They all know I am in Congress. It has never happened. However, randomly such things are said that you have a place in the BJP. But never any serious offer has been made.

Q 4. Are you anticipating any action against you as ED has opened a matter related to a CBI FIR, where you were named?

H: It is an old case. There was a CBI FIR (registered in 2019). I have recorded my statement to ED in this matter.

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Q 5 What did you say to ED?

H: The matter is related to M3M’s dealings. I have recorded my statement, whatever they asked. I have nothing to do with it.

Q 6. Do you think when elections take place such matters are raised and when elections are over they are not pursued further?

H: When cases are pursued with a vendetta, people give a befitting reply. Matters are sub judice.

Q 7 Elections are a couple of months away. You are running a campaign ‘Haryana Mange Hisab’. What response are you getting?

H: We are getting a tremendous response. Wherever we are going, wherever our programmes are being organised, all sections of society are participating. There is a clear indication that Congress will form the next government.

Q 8 Why do you believe the people are upset with the BJP?

H: They have been ruling for more than nine-and-half-year. Earlier, it was a BJP government for five years. Then JJP joined them too. The government’s responsibility is to carry out development and give security. They have failed on all fronts.

When we left in 2014, we were number 1 in the country in per capita income, per capita investment, law and order, employment, and in sports. In 2024, Haryana is number 1 in unemployment, inflation, and it has been declared an insecure state in the Social Progressive Index of the Centre. There is nothing like law and order in the state. The government doesn’t exist. Women wrestlers who brought fame to the country were dragged at Jantar Mantar. Even today they have not got justice. I am standing with them.

As far as employment is concerned they have set up Haryana Kaushal Rozgar Nigam Limited (HKRNL) where neither merit is honoured nor reservations, and no pension is given too. Very highly educated youngsters are employed at low wages. During our time we had ended up giving jobs on contract. Here, the government itself has become a contractor. They are playing with the youth’s future. There is a war going on in Israel and youth are sent there to die.

There are two lakh jobs vacant in government departments. HKRNL is not providing employment but doing deployment like a digital labour chowk. There is no service security. There is no pension. The government is playing with the lives of people.

Today, they have issued an advertisement with a slogan, ‘Mhara Haryana, Non-Stop Haryana’. In actual, it is ‘Mhara Haryana, Laga Diya Full Stop Haryana’.

They have no achievement to talk about. They just talk about “Baap-Beta”. CM often gives statements on “Baap-Beta”. It is their frustration. I am proud that my father and grandfather had served as freedom fighters. Four of our generations have served the country.

My grandfather had brought Mahatma Gandhi to Rohtak in 1921. It was published in The Tribune. My father had stayed in eight different jails. He had been a member of seven different houses.

Q 9 How are you so confident in a four-cornered contest? Besides BJP, INLD and BSP have tied up.  JJP is also contesting on its own.

H: There is no four-cornered contest. Lok Sabha polls have shown that. Those who have not got even 1 per cent votes are not in contention. JJP has got just 0.87 per cent votes. There is a direct contest between Congress and BJP. People are not going to vote for spoilers.

Q 10 AAP has launched a big campaign in Haryana. How do you look at that?

H: Earlier too they had launched it. They had contested the Adampur byelection in Hisar. Arvind Kejriwal comes from Hisar. They had put up a candidate who got around 3,000 votes. We have an alliance with them at the national level, not at the state-level.

Q 11 Union Home Minister Amit Shah held a big rally in Mahendragarh recently. Do you think it will make an impact?

H: He had come. CM had also gone there. They were seeking the account of 10 years of Congress. They didn’t know that the rally was happening at the central university which came under our rule.

Q 12 Amit Shah said that they would not allow Muslims to get reservations. Do you see it as an attempt at polarization?

H: I was CM for 10 years. No reservation was given to Muslims. From where does this question arise? It is their politics of polarisation, police and propaganda – the three Ps.

Q 13 Congress and BJP shared five seats in Lok Sabha polls. BJP have won five seats even after two terms.

H: They have failed on all fronts. They had 10 seats earlier. Haryana is the only state where they lost maximum as far as vote share is concerned. The vote share (47.61%) of the INDIA bloc in Haryana was the highest for any state across the country. We had given one seat to AAP but their vote share actually belongs to Congress.

In 2019, we had around 28 per cent vote and we have risen by more than 19 per cent. None of the parties have witnessed such a rise in any state. BJP lost 12 per cent of votes from 2019.

In all 10 Lok Sabha seats, the Congress vote share has risen. In all 90 assembly segments, BJP’s vote has fallen.

Q 14 But you still lost five seats.

H: It is an indication. We have reached from zero to five with the highest vote share in the country. In the coming assembly elections, people will elect Congress.

Q 15 Selja stated on July 18 that those who were not even in the party surveys were given tickets in Lok Sabha polls and this shouldn’t happen in Vidhan Sabha elections

H: I don’t know how she got hold of party surveys. I didn’t have those. Different agencies have conducted them. It is all due to ticket distribution that Congress was able to win five seats. When the elections started, we used to discuss with you people too and it was said that Congress could win one seat, i.e Rohtak. It was after ticket distribution that the Congress surge happened.

Distribution of tickets matters. In the 2019 Vidhan Sabha polls, had we distributed tickets properly, we would have formed the government.

Q 16 Had you people distributed tickets quota-wise in the 2019 Vidhan Sabha polls. It happened like that. Such quota-wise distribution happens as we understand because of so many factions in Congress. One is yours and then there is Kumari Selja, Birender Singh

H: Birender Singh has just joined the Congress. He is our “margdarshak” (guide).

Q 18 But he says he is an active politician.

H. You were there at the press conference. When I addressed him as “margdarshak”, he didn’t say anything. He is my elder brother. He had said that he was not in politics.

Q 19 But he told you that he has retired and you should also retire

H: He was saying he has retired and given me some advice. I told him that everyone retires, everyone has to retire one day. However, he has retired.

Q 20 After the Lok Sabha polls, Kiran Choudhry left the party. Is she upset with you?

H: She is not upset with me. She could be upset with the party. Only she can tell. She must have seen a better future (in BJP).

Q 21 After she left, Selja issued a statement that injustice was done to her and had her daughter Shruti got the ticket she would have definitely won. Randeep Surjewala said that the party should deliberate on it.

H: Whatever decision the party high command had taken, it was taken after due deliberations. It was the party high command which had given tickets to Selja, and Deepender. To say that high command had given one ticket wrong and other ticket right is beyond my understanding.

Q 22 Shouldn’t all factions come together for Vidhan Sabha polls?

H. We will come. We are united.

Q 23 You have several programmes lined up. Are different factions coming together in any one of them?

H: We are a national party. We can have different opinions but not differences in our minds (Manbhed). It is obvious. If there are no differences in opinions, how will we progress.

Q 24 In the ‘Haryana Mange Hisab’ campaign, there are no Selja and Randeep

H: Selja is holding her programme. She is holding a ‘yatra’. It is part of this campaign.

Q 25 It implies in Congress, we are “hum sath sath hain” like a Hindi film

H: Yes.

Q 26 Kiran leaving the party would be counted as a loss?

H: Recently, 42 ex-MPs/MLAs have joined the party. That has helped the party too.

Q 27 Recently, the BJP government raised the creamy layer in the OBC quota from Rs 6 lakh to Rs 8 lakh. It has also been announced that the quota has been enhanced in group A and B jobs from 15 per cent to 27 per cent. Will these initiatives bring back the OBC vote to the BJP?

H: The question is who decreased it from Rs 8 lakh to Rs 6 lakh. During our rule, it was Rs 8 lakh. Who will pay the fine for depriving benefits for five to six years? They are now taking decisions while looking at the election.

We are promising that we will raise the limit to Rs 10 lakh. It was during our rule BC (A) reservation was raised from 10 per cent to 15 per cent.

Q 28 Amit Shah himself has taken charge of the Haryana campaign. Will he make an impact?

H: He has taken charge of other states too. He is going to Maharashtra too. He is a senior leader of the BJP.

Q 29 Deepender is travelling across the state under the ‘Haryana Mange Hisab’ campaign. Are you introducing him to state politics?

H: It is not my programme but an AICC event. They have decided who will go.

Q 30 But are you launching him in the state? Is he interested?

H: Do you want me to retire?  I have told several times that neither I am tired nor retired.

Q 31 Why did the BJP replace Manohar Lal Khattar?

H: They thought they would change the face to reduce anti-incumbency. They will keep changing faces but people have decided to replace them.

Q 32 Modi has come for the third time as PM. Doesn’t it imply that people want the BJP?

H: In 2019, he had won for the second time. We got zero seats in the Lok Sabha polls. They had led in 79 assembly segments while we were ahead in just 10 seats while JJP was leading in one.

After a few months in assembly elections, Congress won 31 seats. The BJP was reduced from 79 to 40 seats. This result is before you.

For the 2024 assembly elections, people have made up their minds.

Q 33 Are sitting BJP MLAs in touch with you? Three Independents are supporting you. Are they disillusioned with the BJP government?

H: It is to be seen whether we (sitting BJP MLAs) can accommodate them.

The Independents are supporting us as the BJP government has failed. They are also accountable to those who have chosen them.

Q 34 What is your take on honour killing? It is one of the worst traditions in our country and it is widespread in Haryana

H: It is a universal phenomenon and not specific to Haryana. Your next question would be on the role of Khaps. They have no role in honour killings. It is the families who indulge in these killings-either the boy’s side or the girl’s side.

We have a Hindu Marriage Act but customs prevail. Some honour killings take place as marriage has taken place in the same gotra or in the same village, which is not as per traditions.

Q 35 It is the society that builds pressure to kill

H: You do not understand that you connot marry in your village. You cannot marry your sister. It is our societal structure.

I am against honour killings. Neither village supports it nor khap and leaders.

Q 36 Do you support that same gotra marriage be banned by amending the Hindu Marriage Act?

The amendment should be brought banning same gotra marriage and marrying in the same village.

Q 37 A campaign is being run under ‘Haryana Banao Abhiyaan’ where they are demanding that the state should have separate capital and separate high court.

H: Every state should have its capital. Punjab doesn’t have a capital. Haryana doesn’t have a capital. Chandigarh is a union territory. We have three conflicting issues-water, capital and territory. These issues will be resolved together.

The SYL issue has attained finality with the order of the apex court.

Q 38 What do you have to say about Rahul Gandhi? He has become the Leader of Opposition now.

H: It is a welcome development. I had said that he should become the Leader of Opposition. It is good that he would raise issues there.

Q 39 The Saini government has recently allowed the stilt plus four floors. What does your party think about it?

H: It should not be allowed in old sectors. Parking is a big issue. Those days, people used to have scooters. Now, they have cars. So, there are fights.

However, in new sectors, it could be allowed.

Q 40 You had earlier proposed that if Congress came to power, there would be four deputy CMs from different castes. One each from Brahmin, Dalit and OBC communities and one from another community. Are you still committed to the idea?

H. I have said this in 2019. If I have said once, that is my commitment.