BJP has no plans to topple Punjab CM Bhagwant Mann, it will fall due to its misdeeds: BJP state chief Sunil Jakhar

Chandigarh, June 25

Punjab BJP president Sunil Jakhar says that the Central Government has no designs on the AAP-led government in Punjab. Speaking to Jupinderjeet Singh and Rajmeet Singh on the Decode Punjab show, Jakhar talked spoke on a wide range of topics, including the importance of the Akali Dal for the state and the issues pertaining to farmers.

Excerpts from the interview:

Your former party colleague Charanjit Singh Channi said on this show that the BJP can topple the Bhagwant Mann Government anytime.

This question has been answered by me several times ever since Amit Shah came to Ludhiana and he said that Bhagwant Mann’s government will not last long after June 4, the day the results are declared. And I have made it clear that Amit Shah only showed the mirror to Aam Aadmi Party and to Bhagwant Mann. And I still hold this, whatever I have said so far, that they are going to topple because of their own misdeeds.

So, they are going to topple?

No, they are going to fall by themselves… Bhagwant Mann’s government is going to topple itself because of its misdeeds, because of the failed promises that they have not been dishing out and because of the unrest amongst its own MLAs. I think they are fed up. You should have seen yourself, I think one of the major newspapers and social media carried this picture where Bhagwant Mann, as a Chief Minister, he has herded his MLAs in a kind of enclosure. You know this fencing and this barbed wire was made to keep the cattle away in America, and now they are trying to keep the people out. His own MLAs he is herding into a kind of enclosure.

That itself shows the kind of unrest and the kind of total lack of trust between the Chief Minister’s government and its own MLAs. So, they are going to fall under their own misdeeds. I think Channi is trying to put the blame on BJP or whatever, but I can foresee that the results of Jalandhar byelection will be the death knell of Bhagwant Mann’s tenure as Chief Minister.

His political career will be at stake once the results are out and I have said so in Jalandhar itself that the day Kejriwal comes out of Tihar… If he comes out of the jail, I think then Bhagwant Mann’s days are numbered. If he stays in Tihar, which seems more likely because there is foolproof case against him, I think in that case still he will have to prove his mettle in the Jalandhar byelection.

So, the BJP is in touch with the MLAs?

No, not BJP. I am saying BJP has nothing to do. You mentioned about Channi, then another leader, Pratap Bajwa, was saying that 45 MLAs… he is talking about. I think it is kind of a slip of tongue. What is 45 MLAs plus 15 MLAs of Congress? Bajwa must be getting his achkan ironed because he is always a chief minister and he is waiting for the last 20 years. I have known he is always ready to be anointed as a chief minister of Punjab.

No, they don’t have to worry anything from BJP. Aam Aadmi Party, you can tell Bhagwant Mann ji that yeah, he can rest assured that nothing is happening from BJP’s side. But he has to take care of his own MLAs and more than that he has to take care of Punjab.

Which he has totally, he has dereliction of duty. He has abandoned his responsibility as chief minister. He has failed as chief minister.

He still thinks he is trying to keep people happy, in good humour by his jokes and through his chhallas that he is singing. But people of Punjab want governance, which is nowhere to be seen in Punjab.

The opposition, especially the Congress, is always alleging that the BJP has indulged in polarisation and reverse polarisation and in the end, tried to divide the Dalits also. What is your take on that?

I first want to ask my former colleagues from Congress, what do they mean by polarisation? Why do they keep blaming that Hindus are polarising? I have brought some brief figures with me to kind of deny this by figures, because figures speak for themselves. They are talking about Hindu polarisation, that the BJP is trying to polarise Hindus in the name of religion. I will start with my own constituents, Rajpura city. Congress got 32,000 votes. BJP got 33,000 votes. Is that polarisation? Amritsar East, Congress got 28,000 votes. BJP got 29,000 votes. Approximately some odd number here and there. Jalandhar Central 34,000 and BJP got 38,000. Jalandhar North 41,000 and BJP got 47,000. Ludhiana East 41,000 and BJP got 50,000. Ludhiana South 32,000 and BJP got 37,000. Ludhiana West 30,000 and BJP got 45,000. Where is polarisation?

So, that means it has not succeeded.

No, there is no polarisation. Sir, the polarisation what they call… There was no attempt to polarise. There is no attempt to polarise. If there is any form of people coming together, it depends who is looking at from where you are sitting. What has happened, I think Punjab should be more concerned. Every Punjabi, right-minded Punjabi, whether he wears a turban, whichever caste he belongs to, whichever religion he belongs to, I think they should be more concerned about the polarisation which is taking place for radicalism. This should be the concern, not the Hindus.

Hindus have been alienated by the Congress itself. This word polarisation or religion came into the being when Channi (ex-CM Charanjit Singh Channi) was appointed as chief minister. Before that, ever since Giani Gurmukh Singh Muzaffar was made the chief minister till Captain Amarinder Singh, all of them were Sikhs.

All of them were appointed chief ministers. But nowhere this question came about chief ministers, or the chief minister-designate’s religion. This factor of religion came into being, was introduced into this whole equation by the Congress party.

For their vested interest, for their own inferiority complex or whatever they had, grudges against a particular section of society, but it was manifested by them. And to answer this question, I think this is the right forum through which I want to ask my former colleagues in Congress: Is religion going to the basis on which decision will be taken on who is going to be the Congress chief minister? As simple as that.

If it is not, then why have they not yet kind of disassociated themselves, the Congress high command at least or the Punjab leaders from there, from the statement made by one of the leaders in Delhi that only a turbaned person can be the chief minister of Punjab. Why have they not disassociated themselves? They have disassociated with every other statement which came, whether it was Sukhpal Khaira talking about people from Bihar or something. And they were very prompt to say, no, no, no, this is own views, not our views.

When Mani Shankar Aiyar said something, then “no, no, this is own views”. And then another fellow who was talking about the colour of your looks, whether they are from Africa or whether from South Indians, what not. They were disassociating themselves immediately that no, no, this has nothing to do with the Congress party.

So, who has introduced this thing?

This is their own, they have… I think, this is something inbuilt. I think either they have taken a particular section of community for granted, that where would the Hindus go, they will eventually come to us. It is bound to happen. I am not trying to be an oracle or trying to foresee future, but I can read what is happening.

No, polarisation, no, no… What is going to happen is people will come together for their own sense of security. Numbers give them the security because the kind of lawlessness which prevails in Punjab, the kind of glorification of violence which is taking place in Punjab.

Your own newspaper today has said that, India has said that Canada should not glorify terror. I think glorifying terror is almost as bad as what is happening in Punjab, glorification of violence.

The Kanishka bombing…

Not only Kanishka bombing is happening in Canada. Some talk about a security officer slapping a member of parliament. And you (political parties) are glorifying that.

And then you are trying to say that this is happening, the reaction is happening in Himachal Pradesh or somewhere else. Violence begets violence, sir. The kind of thefts, ransoms, kind of lootings which are going on, the way drug mafia is operating, where the liquor mafia is operating from jail, there is sense of total insecurity in Punjab.

And on top of that, when a particular community is alienated then there is a kind of a… What Congress has done is, virtually, they have not said it in as many words, but they have brought in this principle of first among equals. That is another way of saying that you are second class citizen. That merit is not going to be the criteria, your religion is going to decide who you are going to be.

This sense of alienation and the sense of insecurity will bring people together because the government has failed. This is the duty of the government to make every citizen feel secure. Is anybody feeling secure in Punjab today? I have always maintained the gangsters sitting in jail are the most secure people in Punjab.

Today they are operating at will. They are holding press conferences like we are holding an interview; they are holding an interview and nobody has done anything about it. So, this is what is concerning me and I am more worried about this polarisation which has happened right here, sir, right under our nose.

What has happened in Faridkot? You are a journalist. You are an investigative journalist. You have the pulse of the people and you would know. I don’t think Hansraj Hans ji lost because of the farm agitation. He lost because of the polarisation of radicalism. But who allowed it, sir? Who allowed it? Because there is a failure of government, failure of leadership.

The government should have provided this kind of a leadership.

But to some, it is as if the Central agencies were behind it. One of the parties is alleging that it is an outcome of that…

How come Central agencies can dictate terms and they couldn’t, Central agencies couldn’t make their own party win here? If the Central agencies hold the mandate that they can dictate the mandate is going to the favour of somebody in Faridkot or somebody in Khadoor Sahib, then why couldn’t they make other people also win? No, sir. This is, even Sukhbir ji has gone back on charges. He said this Amritpal is propped up by the agencies. And now he is trying to defend him. I think they (the Akalis) have lost moorings. This is what Punjab is worried about and this is what we should be discussing here, sir.

You call your program decoding Punjab. I think instead of decoding Punjab, it should be understanding Punjab first. These people who are talking about polarisation, you are talking about this. This is not in the ethos of Punjabi itself. Punjab has never talked about that, Punjab has talked about Punjabiyat, Punjabi and Punjab. Never ever spoken about Hindu-Sikhs. Who brought this is? This Congress petty leadership and propped up by some female sitting there in Delhi. This is against the very ethos of Punjab and this has to be fought with.

Everybody has to come together and they have to shed this. No, there is nobody, they all are equal in Punjab, sir. I have never felt a second class citizen.

They might, whatever they might, and nobody feels like second class citizen in Punjab. If these Congress leaders, I think, I doubt their being Punjabis itself. They may put up a pagdi, but a pagdi doesn’t make you a Sikh.

I have never believed it. I have told late Parkash Singh Badal many times in the Assembly also that I am better Sikh than most of your baptised Sikhs sitting here, please.

Maybe I don’t have the Sikhi swaroop. Maybe I don’t wear the attire of being a Sikh, but I have imbibed the teachings of Guru Sahib. And I think this is what these people lack.

This is what Punjab needs. Punjab needs to worry about the drug issue. Let’s talk about the issues of Punjab.

Well, to decode Punjab, you have to understand it first. So, that’s why we invite experienced politicians like you and experts.

I am not a politician, sir. Don’t blame me being a politician. I have maybe failed because I have never been a politician. I am in politics, but I am not a politician.

Sir, you say BJP is not doing polarisation and there is radicalism going on. But I would like to take you back to your statement when you said that you could not become the chief minister because you were a Hindu. So, that also amounts to…

No, I have never said it. I didn’t say it. The Congress people said that he cannot be. I should have brought in that clip also where this one said… because I didn’t want to drag her name into this thing because she is not worth it.

You have her statement here. She said only a turbaned Sikh can be chief minister of Punjab. I didn’t.

I said they should have told me that Sunil cannot be made chief minister because he is not even MLA. It would have sufficed. They could have charged me with whatever else. They could have said he is corrupt, he is this or that and that would have been okay. But they said he cannot be made because he is not Sikh. Who said it, sir? No, you can’t blame me for this, sir.

That became the flashpoint of your leaving the Congress.

No, no, no. I was very much in the Congress. First of all, whether Sunil became chief minister or whether he didn’t become chief minister, it’s immaterial. Punjab is not bothered about Sunil. What is at stake is a matter of principle. Whether everybody in Punjab has equal rights or not. Can you discriminate against a particular section? What is majoritarianism, sir? There is a difference between rule of majority and majoritarianism, sir. Majoritarianism is when you exclude somebody because of minority.

How can this farce be created, sir? 42 MLAs voted for Sunil Jakhar and I think out of 42 at least 35 were Sikhs, sir. At least 35. You still keep the grudge? I don’t keep the grudge, sir.

What triggered my leaving the party was when they issued me a notice. Because till all these months from September till May, when they issued me a notice, I have been saying that Congress should disassociate itself from this statement from Ambika Soni. And her acolytes say, these 4-5 leaders who are now at the head of Congress. I don’t want to rake up this subject because Sunil is not important. Important is the issue.

The issue is I left because they issued me a notice. After 50 years (in Congress), if they cannot pick up the phone and talk to me if they had anything against me, then I think that is a very big insult and I am self-respecting myself. That’s why I said I am not a politician.

Sir, now the critics are saying that you are in BJP now, a senior BJP president. But you have not been elevated and Ravneet Singh Bittu has been made a Minister of State. After losing. So, in that way they say Hindus are being ignored from Punjab or in the Cabinet.

I think I am not able to explain. I said chief ministers were made since 1966 when Punjab, what it is today, came into being. Never before this issue came up that why not a Hindu chief minister.

It only came up because they brought in this issue that a Hindu cannot be or only a Sikh can be chief minister. Here there is no issue. BJP has never said that only a Sikh can be chief minister.

It is denial. It is excluding a whole community from this democratic process. You cannot do that.

I am worried about this matter of principle. Sunil is long gone but there is a whole list of people who may be feeling alienated.

What about Ashu? What about Brahm Mohindra ? What about Rana KP? They have already been, now I think they have gone a step ahead.