Witty comments made by this somewhat Lilliputian but flamboyant theatre-person leaves one with a sense of a wondrous awe.

The winner of the Sahitya Akademi Award for his book— Theatre in India in 1962, Gargi has also received the International Film Festival Award for his documentary Jatra. His tryst with theatre and his prolific pen gave theatre lovers a chance to witness his exquisitely consummate plays that include Lohakutt, Kanak di Balli, Kerro, Dhuni di Aggan and book lovers to experience the passionate portraitures of his contemporaries in Nim de Patte, Surme Wali Akh and Sharbat dian Ghuttan among many others.

After setting up the Department of Indian Theatre at Panjab University, Chandigarh, Balwant Gargi also taught Indian theatre at the university of Washington. His first of kind book — Rangmanch, is considered an encyclopaedia of sorts, in Punjabi language, on the Indian theatre. He expressed his views on theatre and literature in an exclussive interview with Sonoo Singh

Most people have read your controversial books Naked Triangle and Purple Moonlight for their voyeuristic appeal. These two books, which list down a lot of known personalities, have been taken with a pinch of salt Amrita Pritam was annoyed at how you had portrayed her in Purple Moonlight. What were your real intentions?

I do not record happenings in my books, because I’am not a historian but a writer. In my books, I build up the experience that I’ve lived or have seen around. Writing a book, for me, is like erecting a rhythm of speech and that is it.

If I talk of Pablo Neruda walking into my house, or of my encounters with Brecht, Doris Lessing, Hussain or even Amrita Pritam it is because these people have "happened to me". If Amrita Pritam was annoyed then that was foolish, because I merely wanted to celebrate her.

The people, who have touched your lives in some ways, somewhere become a part of you. Like my mother who was horrible, highly aggressive and very foolish, yet full of fire was my inspiration when I wrote the play Babey. It was a tragic tale of a mother.

Do you plan to create that magical aura of controversy even in your forthcoming and yet-to-be released Punjabi novel Joothi Roti ?

Well, I’ve never had a clear purpose or a plan for any of my novels. It is just that I like being forthright with my comments and thoughts, which is interpreted as being bold.

Interestingly, before the release of this book my critics and friends both have frightened me, because they say that it is sexually too strong. In fact they have advised me not to release this book.

Joothi Roti is the true story of a modern contemporary girl. I had even thought of performing this on the stage, with me as one of the actors, but it’s stirring honesty seems to have frightened most people.

A journal recently called you the Playboy of Punjabi Literature. You seem to revel in the fact.

(Laughs) I don’t really understand in what context I’ve been called the playboy , but as I understand it connotes a handsome and a gallant man. A man who is enjoyable and pleasant.

I write in a manner that is frank and open, maybe that is what has been interpreted thus. I think I’am a revolutionary of sorts because I write about the liberation of women and their suppressed sensuality. My play Lohakutt is about the jealousy that exists between a mother and a daughter, as it exists between any two women. It is about the sexual hypocrisies that shroud our sanctimonious society. My women are all raw and fresh, but unlike Ibsen’s Nora. As for talking or writing on these issues I do not take the help of slogans. I like to present my own sincere impressions.

Freud mentions transformation of libidinal urges into socially acceptable activities, as one of the "normal" mechanisms of psychosexual development. Is this your position as a "frank and candid writer" as well ?

I have studied Freud extensively, so I can be called a Freudian as well. Talk of transformation of libidinal urges as part of my psychosexual development is simply a phrase to classify a person.

Freud has liberated people from many suppressed ideas. In reading him I’ve been able to understand and comprehend his vision. It has also helped me in handling my relationships with my mother, father, brothers my sisters. But I don’t think I fit into this definition, even though I myself say I’m a frank writer.

If authentic art is a by-product of man’s being near to his roots, does that mean that a Chekov not performed by Russians, or a Lorca not performed by the Spaniards would be inauthentic?

Do you know that the Russians and not the English gave the best expression to Shakespeare? When we talk of theatre it is not authentic of inauthentic theatre, but good and bad theatre. While studying in Lahore, I wrote poems in English, but today I write plays in Punjabi. This does not mean that I’m not true to any of these languages. This happened just because at that time I wanted to express myself in English and now I have the urge to assert myself in my mother tongue.

Theatre is about expressions and nothing else. If Lorca or Chekov could encounter various kinds of experiences sitting in either Italy or Russia, then I’m sure that the same must have been felt by someone sitting in the interiors of Punjab, or for that matter any country or any city or village. All talk of a script for Punjabi theatre only to be picked from the work of a Punjabi playwright is plain nonsense. I don’t believe in theatre that simply preaches. Theatre is for amusement and for the senses.

The question of authentic and inauthentic theatre does not arise. There is only good and bad theatre. How does one define "good theatre"?

(After a long pause) By using all the various forms of art — music, dance, colours, rhythms and masks theatre can be evolved into "good theatre". I think that the art of theatre is difficult to explain, because to me theatre is like music.

The highest form of music is the Alaap, which does not say anything at all, but in that vacuum of revealing nothing it seems to unveil everything. The Natyashastra — the Bible of theatre, says that theatre gives wisdom to fools, and encourage to cowards, and also shows the ways of earning money for the producers and of earning box office success. So, anything that creates an aesthetic joy becomes "good theatre". The simple act of children dancing joyfully on stage can constitute theatre. But then to understand this one needs to have analysis. With analysis comes discovery. But all these aspects seem to be missing today, because literature, unlike music, can move on the crutches of slogans.

Both the Kabuki Theatre and the No Theatre have the right amount of energy and spirit that make it into a complete theatre experience, simply because theatre that involves architecture (stage-work), music and dance makes it into a complete art form.

How do you perceive Punjabi theatre?

Simply put, the future of Punjabi theatre in very dim. No one reads Punjabi today. How many Punjabi playwrights come to mind, if one starts counting them? Hardly any. Talking of great Punjabi actors, there are none. Great Punjabi actors like Prithviraj Kapoor and Balraj Sahni conquered India through Hindi, and did not create anything worth remembering in Punjabi.

The theatre that exists in Punjab today is the realistic theatre at large, on the lines of "speech theatre" that flourished in the West in the bygone era. I perceive it as poor theatre. After Brecht came from Germany he exploded this myth, and theatre, thankfully, came to its original form of multiple acting presentation. But even today Punjabi theatre is still in that stage of excessive sermonising and tutoring the rights and wrongs of life .

Add to this the woes of a free theatre. Marathi, Bengali and Gujarati theatre make a lot of money. In the West, theatre tickets are sold six months in advance! The government has harmed theatre in Punjab by endorsing free passes to all. I think free passes for theatre should be strictly banned. For good theatre you need the funding of millions!

Punjabi theatre is replete with the rich folk forms of gatkas, mirasis and naqalias. Why the prophecy of a dismal future?

These folk forms are dying forms of theatre. Punjabi theatre doesn’t have the magic to attract an audience. I don’t see any reason to create a hue and cry about the dying forms of mirasis, naqalias etc because they form a small section of the components of theatre. These are the agents that could either be used to enhance and embellish the elements of passion and fury on stage add the desired amount of colour on the stage. If the basics of passion and fury are absent, then how do these art forms heighten the non-existent tempo and rhythm?

One has to draw from the dying forms, and recreate them. Most theatre persons try and copy or duplicate these folk patterns and only end up creating bad copies. Theatre has to stand on its own feet and not simply wobble. For most people it has become a social ladder to meet the right kind of peoples and get that coveted sort of publicity, which gives you fame and popularity. Whom are you fooling?

Then why did you turn to writing in Punjabi, instead of sticking on to English?

Writing is the most difficult job. All kinds of writing, and in any language, is highly tricky and cunning. I learnt Punjabi by mistake. In fact the language started flowing into my blood not through anywhere else, but from my mother’s abuses and profanities that she showered on me liberally.

It was a chance meeting with Rabindranath Tagore, whom I had shown some of my English poems, that made me realise that Punjabi is my mother-tongue, when he asked me about the same.

I had to dictate my first Punjabi play Lohakutt because I did not know the script. But that was also the reason for the purity, strength and freshness of my Punjabi writings because I did not know what was being written in Punjabi, and how.

Writers like you, who talk of the varied nature of human beings, obviously do not conform to the common myth that all Punjabis are ridiculously humorous or funny . Theatre, music and other art forms are seen as being incompatible with the Punjabi temperament. Why is this so ?

Bless Khushwant Singh and his Sardar jokes for that. I’ve never worked consciously towards the fact that I have to break this common notion of associating bawdy jocularity with a Punjabi. I write what I see or what I experiences just that.

If a Heer Ranjha is performed well, or a Waris Shah sung well it can bring tears to the eyes. Nowhere does it say that a Punjabi cannot be a lover. Read Shiv Kumar Batalvi, Mohan Singh and Amrita Pritam to understand that the most beautiful language that a lover can lay his hand on to express his love for his beloved is Punjabi.